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Good documentary on 4 now. What a mentalist. The definition of arrogant. Imagine the banter* if he was President?

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East Ukraine is unfortunately a fait d'accompli. No one's going to start a war over a few thousand square miles of icey steppe. Well, maybe the Ukrainians. There's, is a losing battle though.

There is something just a little odd about how Russia have become, in such a space of time so adept, such boogeymen more so then previously presented.

Something is going on here and I'm doubtful we're getting the full picture.

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Or some think we are already at war with russia .... we just don't know it yet

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Remember how everyone laughed at Romney's Russia chat before the 2012 election... back when the Trump was famous for his bad wig

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Why would we be at war with them? A strengthening of EU and US sanctions, with the help of other allies could effectively destroy their economy. Well, whatever is left of it.

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I think that's when we everyone was busy calling him worse than Hitler... What was it Biden said... "he'd keep black people in chains" or something to that effect.

Oh how times change. Mitt! come back, all is forgiven!

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I think it is more Russia already sees itself as at war with the west

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Pretty much.

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^^^ according to a few articles I read online so it must be fact

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Deep state/ FBI acted to subvert the elcection in favour of Trump

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It's easy to forget that relations between Russia and US were much warmer under Medvedev and Obama.

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I honestly find it difficult to believe that people in positions of power in the US or around POTUS are in the pay, or under the influence of Russia. I've read all the wapo and nyt times articles today about three times to see if anything was based in fact. There is insinuation, but nothing which comes close to evidence. If I've missed it, please show me as I find all the articles about Flynn et al from Today rather... Underwhelming to say the least.

I always though trump liked Putin because he's a moron and the oppositite of a deep thinker
He sees some kind of media portrait of a tough guy and likes to see himself as such. It's arguable, due to these comparisons that exist in his head we now see this hysteria. Maybe.

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Thats the article i was talking about dvmc... i had posted it before

www.politico.com/magaz...

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Thanks will read it.

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I'm not saying i fully buy into it.... just food for thought.

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In the first few paragraphs it makes a few assumptions, that due to the fear of those in Eastern Europe we're already at war (since 1000 years has this fear existed...) and that Russia interfered in the election which hasn't been proven.

So...

The fear on Eastern Europe outside of the Ukraine is highly believable but for practical purposes pure hysteria. Since day dot various dutchies, Königreichs or whatever have been carving up the baltics, Poland etc between themselves. Russia didn't create that sense that the state could so easily be taken over or its borders erased...it doesn't help surely but even in modern history the political geography of that region has changed more times than where's drawers.

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Where's drawers.... Indeed...

No I know that and it's an interesting read thanks. Personally I think the real Problem in the baltics is the lack of sense of self and the fact that these are countries without young people. The EU is too blame for that exodus and the psychosocial damage this creates.

Maybe that's another debate...

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Haha at the prison Planet fans. "Deep State". Taken from a headline on its site. Amazing how you don't come clean as being Alex Jones fans.

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Haha at you not realising that this term is as old as time and actuallyused in a tweet from the intercept, which I posted in this fucking thread.

Spastic.

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Think Ukraine would give Russia a run for it's money in a conventional war.

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not really infographic.statista.c... it would be a walkover

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Deep state is a well known term is it? First I've ever heard it was from prison Planet site. Amazing how New World Order has gone out of style. Maybe it's because the altright think they are the New World Order now.

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The deep state is just a general term for the various security, intelligence and affiliated defence agencies, as far as I know.

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Pretty great excerpt from that politico article...

As the definitions of war and peace have blurred, creating impossibly vast front lines and impossibly vague boundaries of conflict, Putin has launched a kind of global imperialist insurgency. The Kremlin aggressively promotes an alternate ideological base to expand an illiberal world order in which the rights and freedoms that most Americans feel are essential to democracy don’t necessarily exist. It backs this up with military, economic, cultural and diplomatic resources. Through a combination of leveraging hard power and embracing the role of permanent disruptor — hacker, mercenary, rule-breaker, liar, thief — Putin works to ensure that Russia cannot be excluded from global power.

Its hard to deny any of this, but also hard, for me personally, in the respect of Syria to be half way thankful for it. Without Russia it's arguably Syrias largest city would be the personal playground of criminal warlords enforcing sharia with one hand while robbing and looting with the other. The US made the big mistake years ago in not realising, for better or ur worse Russia is still "of" the best, not to be counted but certainly to be supported when faced with the naked nihilism shown by the maniacs the US and EU armed against Assad.

Russia enjoys higher prestige, I think anyway, these days due to people identifying with their dog in that particular fight, not democracy but a sane kind of rationalism and an understanding of how the world works. The idealism, if you could call it that, of US/EU policy in the ME the lädt many years is responsible for Russia looking like the grown up in the eyes of many and a chance they were smart enough not to pass up.

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*Russia as "of" the west and not to be courted...

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Looking at that infographic, maybe it's not a good idea that war.

Ukrainians nowhere to keep all those prisoners!!!

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The deep state is just cranked out to suggest that democrasy is a sham and hidden elites control everything...

That article I linked last night goes so far as to suggest that there are competing factions of the deep state that determine everything and trump is just another face of the deep state

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It's simple Trump pissed off intellignent agencies and they're out for revenge. They'll probably hold back now Dems have ammo to have investigations.

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There is an establishment that controls things. I don't think that is even up for debate

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Yeah... first they got the democrats to select a Kenyan Muslim to be president and told him to come up with a healthcare plan for the people... then they got all the told all the republicans to stop him from doing anything for the next 8 years.

Now they are directing the republicans to undo the healthcare act.

The done something similar with moves on climate change... directing all the republicans to oppose for the last 8 years but telling the kenyan muslim to do it all by executive order... now they are directing the the new guy to undo everything done the previous puppet

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Leak what flynn said on these calls and finish Trump.

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I just don't have that level of access, soz

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Ask your mate Julian.

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He only leaks against Clinton. soz again

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Going for Trump now. Kind Regards.

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I don't agree the deep state refers to any of that NWO guff. I always believed it referred to the complex, sometimes competing branches of official and unofficial intelligence services.

These all, despite the effort to control it, apparently all have separate and competing and sometimes political agendas to an extent. There was a great article at Christmas about the absolute mess the US services are in after becoming unduly political in the past few years. It's practically internecine warfare and the new agency designed to coordinate all the differing agencies, which has direct access to the executive , becoming more political than the others.

I'm. Still looking at the American papers for anything with the faint whiff of evidence or facts. I don't see anything and again if it is anywhere I'd appreciate someone pointing it out.

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Well not that I disagree, it simply doesn't and refers to the intelligence agencies like I said. Sorry, politeness getting the better of me there. In no way has it anything to do with conspicuous theory or anything like that.

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Yes. We can all agree a country is run by a government. That government is made up of civil servants and politicians. Sometimes they talk in secret. Sometimes politics is involved. Sometimes crime is committed and they subvert democracy for selfish reasons, or a secret society in the shadows are pulling strings using money and blackmailing killing off opposition. Ohh wait, that's just Russia.

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The open bare faced corruption is there for all to say. I'd be more worried about the money DeVos paid elected senators to shoehorn her into Cabinet but I guess that's again another argument...

This
frinkiac.com/meme/S03E...

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Yer mas hole is in a Deep State

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imagine living in such a Wayne's world where some fucking Red vessel is a couple mile off out coast, hahaha.

Can't wait til McCain saves the GOP & the Ukraine too.

3 months?

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whose fault is it Pav that a Red grass could get into the White House in the first place?

Who dropped the ball that much?

Who is to blame?

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Clearly the deep state slipped up... waiting til after the election before pushing to get their unwanted candidate canned

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If there is a deep state establishment that is able to control everything, can they fucking hurry up and grab the reins?

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there is clearly an established power structure between politics, media and corporations which has been plainly obvious both here and in the US for a very long time. It has spanned political parties too. It's primary aim is to prevent rule by the majority, to ensure their narrow interests are protected. Oh and they all get together at Bohemian Grove and sacrifice goats

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smacks of conspiracy bollocks, there is no cabal just a bunch of rich muppet's unable to properly govern massive sprawling empires

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running a country is like running a banged out old car running downhill, you keep fixing and patching it as bits fall off, wear down or plain break and when you fuck up and crash it, your're all thrown out and another set of plebs come in and try to it differently but inevitably will fuck it up as well.. to think that some sort of boardroom somewhere has a bunch of old men running the show is absurd

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Brexit and Trump represent the absolute opposite of that shadow government narrative. Brexit especially not in the interest of the Lizard people. Simply bad for business.

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