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Sinn Féin getting fairly shown up here regarding this welfare reform farce. Seems like they've been caught out spoofing to their electorate and the facts about it are stacking up against them. IMO, it looks like that they've cooked this up to try and win votes from the vulnerable people who would be interested in the welfare reform (that they claim to be looking out for) and they've been caught out. It was either a lie, or they just got the facts and finances completely wrong. Either way their excuses reek of

This is why folks need to protest vote and vote Alliance or Green. It's clear the DUP and Sinn Féin aren't capable of being realistic in running the place. The DUP and their backward views, then Sinn Féin and their blatant spoofing. I don't understand why people cant see through it all.

I don't think I need to go in to reasons why the DUP shouldn't get any votes, but their views on equality is reason enough, alone. Sinn Féin make these wondrous claims to win votes (it would seem by preying on the vulnerable, in this case, and people who actually have real issues and shouldn't be used as political ammunition)... then you've got the stories of SF being involved in IRA sex abuse.

People need to use their vote to show that we don't want this nonsense any more. Stop the tribal nonsense and use your vote to damage these two main parties. It's the only way things will change.

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RJ very vocal on terrorism in this thread but completely silent on the matter of 50 terrorist victims in Vegas. Perhaps because it doesn't quite tally with his worldview.

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SF and Finances = Severe dyslexia nothing new there haha.

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Tbf I don't think any party that has formed the executive since the GFA can claim with any degree of positivity that they've done a good job on health or finances. They've no real power. They're given a budget number and get to decide how that budget break downs.

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When a unionist talks about sinn Fein and finance, can they please apologize for not bringing up RHI.

Sorry, I forgot, no one votes for the DUP.

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whataboutery

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I know talking, but some of me fellow unionists might want to acknowledge that point, because the irony was so subtle, I simply couldn't detect it.

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* I know Takki

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Love how you think every unionist funny term is a dup voting backward thinking right winger serious bit of generalising there. What even makes someone a unionist the fact that they may be content NI staying in the Uk? That's the problem here and will always be the generalising of identity to one thing or another, if people would realise it all just creationism we have created all this unnecessary crap which causes all sorts of problems, we are a tiny tiny organism floating threw a never ending space we are all the fucking same and should treat everyone the same. I am neither liberal nor conservative again another made up thing to put people into categories.

Fuck it was a tough weekend I tell ye.

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Not being a staunch republican = must be a unionist

Them and us mentality, no in between

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Perhaps I should qualify my point, in N.I, we use Proportional Representation. Anyone who votes DUP on that list before Sinn Fein, or in some tactical way to the advantage to the DUP over Sinn Fein, should perhaps acknowledge that the most monumental financial fuck up was caused by DUP incompetence or corruption. Feel free then after, to discuss Sinn Fein and finances.
I'm not particularly labelling Unionist or Nationalist, but if you vote for them in some way, you can't wash your hands of their faults.

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Choc-Ice • 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
When a unionist talks about sinn Fein and finance, can they please apologize for not bringing up RHI.

Sorry, I forgot, no one votes for the DUP.

Haha.. mad when you put it like that isn't it.
Unionists expect to sweep that under the carpet and have SF welcome them back with open arms.. no going back to status quo

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There's an investigation in to RHI. It's hardly being swept under the carpet. And when the findings are published, I'm sure it'll be talked about loads.

Quality portraying of flat out whataboutery and themunz are far worse though lol. Also Choc, are you somehow trying to say that, no matter who you vote for, if it's not SF then it's basically an advantage for the DUP? I cant really work out what you're trying to say.

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It's also pretty clear who's at fault when you've got every political party now saying that SF are the ones causing the problems here at the minute with no government.

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What like.. their political opponents. Lol

I think what's pretty clear is that TakkI will try to spin everything to make it look like SF fault.

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Don't really need to spin anything when it comes to the situation NI is in at the moment. Alliance and Greens have backed up SF on many things in the past but they're saying they need to wise up. It's not the default state to always be fighting against another political party. They can agree on certain things. Unless you're bitter and can't bear to agree with anyone outside of your little salty bubble. I think there's plenty of SF policies which are good. They're causing a total farce at the minute, however. Anyone with an ounce of critical thinking can see that.

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Well ofcourse they'd argue they didn't cause it at all.
They bent over backwards to keep the thing up and running for years when McGuinness was around
It was threw back in their face

The point they make now is that agreeing to an executive will only be a short term fix as the issues haven't been dealt with..
What's the point in it collapsing again in another 6 months ?

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Actually, I take back when I acknowledged a bit of whataboutery. It was just unfortunate that the SF point are opposite to the DUP. Fact is, the DUP RHI scandal was the mother of all fuck ups. Don't know why anyone thinks there needs to be an investigation, or why in fuck it hasn't been done already. And I did say I was a unionist Takki so don't call me a themunz, lol, I'm with us mate.

The PR voting system is a bit complicated, but what I'm trying to say is that if you vote or lack of vote was to the advantage of DUP, you are accepting that they are corrupt or incompetent, but you're voting for them anyway to keep out themunz.

IMO, every unionist should have voted UUP or Alliance and let the fucking DUP fucking die. Voting to the extremes of either side is a fucking joke, people don't know how the GFA is set up.

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Can understand their frustration (hard not to be with the DUP for any number of reasons), but there's ways which they can work which doesn't involve bringing everything down the way they have. It's hardly fair on the majority of voters (across all the other parties, I mean) that everything has to be put on hold just because SF haven't got their way or don't like something. And it's not as if their really struggling against the DUP at the minute. They've backed themselves into a corner. If they put pressure of PoC reform they could probably iron out a lot of issues once they all got back into government.

And the other issue with what you said is that they pulled out over RHI. Yet they've not mentioned it in ages. It's clear they're playing games, and a lot of people are getting fed up with it.

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When trust disappears on both sides then things fall apart. This has systematically happened basically since Arlene got the job. Mcguinness dying has made things worse. Unless theirs compromise on both sides then it's going to direct rule. You may blame SF takki but in reality it's both political parties to blame here. Start communicating and compromising and it might still be salvageable. You posting articles blaming SF is no more useful than a SF supporter shouting no return to stormont without ILA

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There's never been trust between SF and the DUP lol. There probably never will be, either.

As for blaming SF, it was them who brought down the government and who aren't accepting the suggestions/ideas to get things back up and running. Who else's fault is it that we don't have a government? If it was the RHI scandal that caused SF to walk away, why's it not their main issue now? They've changed the script to suit their needs because they're playing games at the expense of everyone here in NI.

www.google.co.uk/searc...

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Also worth noting in there the story on Michelle O'Neill's involvement with promoting RHI, so if it was good enough for her then...? - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-...

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Fuck em all, they are useless. Back to direct rule so we can be united in hating the tories

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struggling to see why you don't like the DUPer tag, Takki? lol

Anyone who was in charge of fucking over the tax payer for the corrupt RHI scheme needs to go, simple.

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Resorting back to pushing the dup tag. Pretty lame tbh. But that seems to be the best/only response you've got.

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It's just the observation one gets reading back on your recent posts on this thread, attack SF near every post, DUP innocent until proven guilty. I did put in a wee lol there, Takki, chill out.

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It's hard to argue with this statement 'the DUP who have been acting to undermine equality and partnership'
SF weren't happy with DUP 'arrogance' and rightly so. They will not accept the legitimacy of the Irish identity or culture so the language act has become an indication of DUP willingness to share power. They will know the DUP are serious when the language act is introduced.
SF had their biggest ever return in the election after they brought down the government so they realise their new position is striking a chord with their voters.

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In the past theirs been some minor mutual respect and some trust i.e. Paisley and mcguinness working together. This continued a while with Robinson and mcguinness but faded. Got steadily worse from there.

Do you accept that things from SF point of view had got intolerable. Lack of respect like the liofa funding decision etc? The rhi inquiry is set up. No more talking or arguing will change things until that inquiry is done. There has been a persistent retracting or rolling back of things from the DUP. If the Nationalist population seen something from the DUP on this they'd put pressure on SF to do a deal. They currently don't

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Irish language act was only 'tertiary' element in Haass talks

www.irishnews.com/news...

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But it was still part of the agreement, yes? That agreement has been reneged on. There were bigger fish to fry in the St andrews agreement. SF are using it as an acid test to see if there's commitment from unionists which there clearly isn't currently.

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Recent posts have been about why we've no government at the moment. Hence why SF is getting talked about quite a bit as it's SF who brought down the assembly and are refusing to accept any other suggestions for how to get it going, unless they get exactly what they want.

Taking down the assembly and stopping every single voter in NI from having a government is pretty arrogant also, UpInArmsMa.

Like I've said before, DUP and SF are two sides of the same coin. Neither really want 'what's best for everyone'.

Andy, they should be working through these things as politicians in government. It's their job, that's what they're meant to do. Not hold the place up just because they aren't getting their own way. Sort out the PoC and they can start getting the things through they claim to care so much about. But they won't. Why?

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The language act was already agreed before Haas. SF weren't to know that the DUP were not committed to implementing something previously agreed upon.

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No point trying to work shit out if you don't believe your partner is not serious about working it out. That is why the plug was pulled. Now they need something to change to prove they are committed. It's very simple in my eyes. Clearly an acid test with Nationalist voting block backing.

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SF want reciprocation before going any further. That is why we've had agreements. It's time for the DUP to put their money where their mouth is otherwise the how can they go into government in good faith?

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Worth all the social services getting a hammering over though? Everyone has to suffer as the political parties won't work out their issues in government, where they're meant to be worked out? If they worked on reforming the PoC sure Alliance and Greens would support SF for Irish language act and DUP would struggle to stop it. Along with gay marriage and other issues which SF want. Alliance also suggested setting up other language acts to keep DUP quiet, but SF aren't interested in that either, even though it will get the ILA.

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I think it is worth a little pain. Tbf SF have a voting block that is suffering too from this so it must be getting its direction from core support. Build respect and begrudging trust again and move forward. Otherwise they go back in and shit hits the fan down the line again, same old story.

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So the DUP want to be in shared government? SF are saying prove it and we will do. They said at the time there would be no return to the status quo. Imagine the votes they'd lose if they just did the whole lie down croppy. Their hands are tied. The ball is very firmly in the court of the DUP.

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And the DUP have the same problems if they are to let it through. These issues should be debated/fought/agreed through government. Collapsing the assembly was only going to go one way, with neither party able to back down which then leads to this prolonged period where services are running out of money, health is getting even more broken, schools are struggling to find budgets and potential for direct rule. SF have to have known this would end up this way and the public services would suffer. Not having to sort a tricky budget is also something which I'm sure SF aren't missing...

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They probably did know it would go this way but obviously felt they had no options. It's far from ideal for anyone takki but I don't think you're seeing it from a SF voter's point of view.

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So Sinn Fein should go into government now? That's what you think?
I can understand the DUP position but look at all the moves sf have made. Meeting queen of England, asking Arlene to attend both ni and roi matches in France. There are more but these two spring to mind. The offer of making first minister position joint instead of one being labelled deputy. There has been zero effort in return. Not only that they ridiculed sf with curry my yoghurt.
The DUP need to make a move.

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No, I think SF shouldn't have pulled out just because they didn't get what they wanted. I also think that the DUP should do more to help power sharing. But both should be doing it *in Government*. We've got Alliance and Greens putting forward ideas to get things going again, both with suggestions that the DUP and SF would probably struggle to refuse on as it would take concessions for both, but would most likely get the past the impasse and ultimately get what SF wants and would save face for DUP.

There's been plenty of snidey comments and insults back and forth, tbf.

It's just shite that we constantly being held back political pointscoring of monumental order. So little gets done here, it's just one crisis to the next. And it's always caused by SF and DUP being melts lol

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lol at expecting politicians to do politics

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Well the nationalist electorate ratified sf's position and voters came back after years of ambivalence.
My view is sf have a valid position.

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You can't be 'in government' unless you have assurance your partner respects you and your electorate. The time has passed for what you suggest. It's been years.

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and the unionist vote has ratified the DUP's position?

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Does that make their position valid?

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Last word goes to Naomi Long, this is what she thinks

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Hopefully the straw poll of the forum here will enlighten takki to the fact that many people across the island are fully behind SF approach. Despite the thoughts of Green Party leaders

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l7.alamy.com/zooms/fed...

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Are you having a laugh?! This board certainly doesn't represent ordinary people that's for sure its about as backward and not open to change as you could get. True that if you have a go at SF your automatically classed as a DUP voter Choco known of your business who I voted but it certainly wasn't DUP I vote for, I class DUP and SF as the same both equally holding things back here.

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Many, yes, not most. Democracy, muzak. Something a hardline SF supporter like yourself probably struggles to get their head around.

Just because a party doesn't get their own way, they shouldn't pull down the government and hold social services to ransom. It's the most amazing hypocrisy when you hear SF say they want to protect the most vulnerable in society, equality for all, etc, etc... then they're willing to use all those people to get their own way or to try and prove a point that they should be sorting through government.

And SF aren't as solid as people are making out. They had a good turnout in last election but I'd say SF would get a drop in votes if another election came around. Yes, their hardline supporters will be fine with what's happening, but there are plenty who gave SF their vote this time round but who are now regretting it due the way they're holding up the whole process in NI, from the budget to health and education. I know of several people who are on that boat and who say they'd go back to their previous voting (Alliance/Greens first, rather than SF). Have heard voters on interviews on radio and TV saying the same.

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